Tuesday, May 10, 2011

Zuhdi Jasser and Robert Spencer debate Islamic reform - Video


On April 3, at the David Horowitz Freedom Center's West Coast Retreat in Palos Verdes, California, I debated Muslim reformer Zuhdi Jasser on the prospects for reform in Islam. Andrew McCarthy, author of Willful Blindness, was moderating.


~ Zuhdi Jasser ~ It is almost like a waste of brain power. Intelligent and good men wrestling over what Muhammad did. But if you listen to Jasser, he negates or wipes out Muhammad's actions and the resultant violence, from those actions/words or example, that carried Islam ate breakneck speed across the Middle East [they are now all 'Arabs'] down to North Africa and out to India. Over that time, easily 200 million dead. This was, moderates would like us to believe was a peaceful time ~

so that perhaps moderate Muslims need to do more than simply create a new version or moderate form of Islam ~ they must go back and acknowledge that Islam's prosperity came through conquest, extreme violence, mass slavery, rape and the subjugation of the other.

They seem to want to stand on top of a perfect footing, of a history that did not exist as they tell it, to create or promote an Islam that does not or cannot exist.


The problem for Zuhdi Jasser and many other Muslims is that they are better than the instructions given/ passed down. Wanting to believe as your parents did ~ in the Allah God of the Kaaba ~ how do you reconcile that. Forget about the modern world or with the west, for a moment ~ how do you reconcile this with yourself. This is the biggest struggle in Islam.


Fantasy v. honesty


It would appear that much of what Muslims say is based on fantasy ~ Jasser says that Bashir destroyed Syria in 2 generations. [Question is good for who?] Interesting, because Robert, met a American-Syrian Christian ~ whose grandfather told him that back in Syria, he would have to lower his eyes whenever he passes a Muslim in the street. [Same thing happening with the 'indigenous' Hindus in the tribal areas of Pakistan ~ at the moment ~ where in some cases they are forced to wear a red patch to let everyone know they are a non-Muslim] So clearly as with all other Muslim nations, there was never and is not equality between Muslim and non-Muslim. Today in Syria, the Constitution bars non-Muslims from becoming President. The picture that repeatedly emerges ~ is of Muslims reigning supreme over all others ~ and that this is taken as a grain of salt ~ it is not seen as 'radical' ~ because it is viewed as the unchanging God's law. Back to the problem with Shari'a.



Further ...

The argument Jasser makes is what can you do with all these Muslims ~ they 'need' god ~ but given the reality that for most of the Muslim world it is illegal [or near enough] to leave Islam ~ then he has to be talking about Allah. He makes a similar argument to that of Muslim leaders ~ that if the people don't have Islam than the whole society falls apart ~ the problem is ~ falls apart like what ~ the wealthy-industrialised-west ~ chuck-full of individual-rights-and-freedoms? It is an argument that is usually used 'for' Shari'a law. And on one side ~ Jasser almost sounds like he is trying to say that the US / other western nations should come to terms with ~ this Islamic God. That is the beginning of the dhimmi status ~ that would mean we would be negotiating with a defunct empire that Muslims want to revive ~ which gained greatness through conquest ~ but with nothing to conquer ~ it can't seem to get its old footing back... it is already showing its violent and threatening side ~ as to attempt to get others to believe it is supremacy or display dominance ~ we should not negotiate on those grounds ~ we should not acknowledge ~ what is now a spent force ~ we should deny it battle.

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