Thursday, January 6, 2011

Islam now considered 'a threat' to national identity by almost half of French and Germans, majority believe Muslim refusing to integrate: new poll

42 per cent of French and 40 per cent of Germans consider the presence of Islamic communities 'a threat' to their national identities. Here a student in a headscarf studies in a university library in Germany

Others – 55 per cent in France and 49 per cent in Germany – believe that the 'influence and visibility of Islam' is 'too large', while 60 per cent in both countries say the reason for the problem was Muslims' own 'refusal' to integrate.

Part of this is government interference ~ in trying to help people to 'understand' Islam ~ the religion is being forced on people. Even tough parts of Islam are not that pleasant or even pious ~ however individual Muslims may or may not act.

In addition to help 'include' Muslims ~ traditional practises are being actively discouraged. For example, to placate a Somali family, a US nursery school ~ got rid of Santa. When you can't have Christmas lights, and you can't call it Christmas, and there is a list of things that is getting longer and longer that you can't do in order to take extra care that Muslims might not get offended ~


It is no wonder people feel threatened by Islam.


We are sending out a confused message ~ we are telling Muslims to integrate ~ then we removing everything that remotely looks like western society ~ and then we are saying integrate into this.


The message is throw what westerns do in the back room ~ as to not offend.

To integrate Muslims we have been trying to move the whole society to fit around what might offend Islam ~


And what is more ~ Muslim groups who want to see Europe become an Islamic state ~ are emboldened by this.



To show the proper respect for Muslims we should get rid of what is ours and replace it with what is theirs ~ even rights and freedoms. If we don't go along we will be labelled racists and Islamophobes and other nasty names. And it works ~ not only are people fearful of offending Islam ~ they don't want their careers destroyed ~ by not going along with some ridiculous Islamization scheme or other.


It is making people uncomfortable. Now western toilets are not good enough ~ Muslims need their own toilets. Next it will be ~ replace all toilets. Muslims can't eat chicken ~ that is specifically not blessed by an Imam. Next thing, its 'you don't mind eating halal ~ do you?' Well ~ yes I do! I would prefer non-halal products ~ thanks for asking.


Muslims don't want to integrate:


60% say the reason for the problem was Muslims' own 'refusal' to integrate


In the Islamic world Muslims have more rights. The Koran tells Muslims they are superior to all others. And so the laws of Islam are based on Islamic supremacy. For Muslims that's God's will.

Christians and others can live among Muslims ~ but only after they agree to pay respect to Islam and Muslims. [See dhimmi status]


But once Muslims are with people who are non-Muslim in great numbers ~ how do they go from understanding themselves as being superior ~ to being equals. Equal under the law, free to practise most aspects of Islam that are within the law.


Not good enough

What is bothering people in Europe is that Muslims are saying it's not enough. Muslims are pushing for their our own laws. In fact they want their laws integrated into EU laws.


Some misguided folks, in the name of 'religious' freedom ~ want to allow Islamic law into state law. We are told Islamic law is not-so-bad, Muslims use it in their daily lives. That its 'Muslim' and a 'private religious' matter ~ is no longer relevant.


But of course, now in Europe the climate has changed. Those who thought that if they reached out to Muslims and offered to moderate western society with regards to Islam ~ if they have not become completely disillusioned, they most likely have been voted out of office.

~ At an Islamic Dutch state-funded school ~ one teacher who dreamed of cultural bliss ~ was made to eat her lunch separately from Muslim teachers. And was suspended for teaching her class on the three Middle Eastern religions. She was told to teach them only that Islam will conquer.


Islam has legal and political aspects ~ to be fully operational they have to erect a state. In Europe.


Fantasies aside about individual Muslim displays of tolerance ~ the practise of tolerance in the Islamic world is in short supply. Muslims are taught they are superior ~ and that one day either others will realize they Muslims too or will come under Muslim control.


Like Ghaddfi says all people are Muslims they just don't know it. Intellectuality non-Muslims are seen as being in a state of ignorance. So what the average non-integrating Muslim is likely hearing ~ is that we are asking them to integrate into our state of ignorance.


In the Islamic world the 'ignorant' are given a lower 'protected' status. Though in the west, we break all of Islam's rules ~ yet continue to be successful and prosperous ~ defies Islamic logic ~ which states, practise these Islamic rituals ~ 5 of these and 5 of those ~ and wear this or that cloth ~ and society will advance. Has failed. It has not provided for Muslims, and this has led them to the west.


Immigration

I think the west has some hard choices to make with Islam. Immigration. Why allow people in who don't want to be here. Or want to come, not to get along and help, but to supplant.


It is immigration that has allowed the unassimilable Muslim numbers to swell. If EU governments had done a better job of selecting immigrants from Muslim nations ~ it 'might' likely look at lot better. Instead they turned a blind eye while each immigrant family chose a partner for one or all of their children from the Muslim world ~ generation after generation. Instead of asking ~ What is this new person going to bring? People were frightened to challenge cultural practise ~ that was costing EU nations more than it was benefiting.


But when we look at European Muslims and the need to integrate ~ we have to look at Russia's Muslims. Who are not immigrants. Besides attacks, there are also calls for more Islamic laws and restrictions on freedoms ~ particularly women's rights.



The Muslim idea is that one day the world will be happy to live as they do in the Islamic world ~ but we are content with rights and freedoms and equality under the laws ~ that we make.
That Muslims want religious law where they are made superior ~ means that we are going to need to take an honest hard look. First we can stop blaming ourselves for some old colonial guilt. Turkey had colonies and Islam's story is littered with brutality and colonization. They feel no guilt because they believe it was God's will. We have to get smart and understand this mindset. And stop tearing ourselves apart.


Islam comes with arrogance ~ but western society has almost had the arrogance beat out of them ~ as we acknowledge our past mistakes. Islam has taken no time for introspection. It is therefore a perfect delusion. Unfortunately, because it refuses to learn from its past ~ as it doesn't admit to mistakes ~ it is an accident ready to happen. Though, as with developments in Pakistan ~ the Islamic accident ~ needn't happen here.





Islam is considered a 'threat' by millions of French and Germans, with the vast majority believing Muslims have 'not integrated properly', a devastating new poll revealed today.

Le Monde newspaper ran the results under a headline which brands efforts to get different religious and cultural communities to live side-by-side as a 'failure'.

It will be viewed with particular dismay in France and Germany, as the two countries have the biggest Muslim communities in Europe.



epa02510438 German Chancellor Angela Merkel France's President Nicolas Sarkozy

German Chancellor Merkel said her country's cultural integration had failed, while in France Sarkozy's government has displayed an increasing hard line towards religious extremism, recently banning Islamic veils

Last year German Chancellor Angela Merkel conceded that her country's multicultural society had 'completely failed', while French President Nicolas Sarkozy has also frequently complained about the growing influence of radical Islam.

Britain also has a sizeable Muslim presence, with members often complaining of discrimination and prejudice.

'Islam and integration: French and Germans admit failure,' writes Le Monde, the most famous newspaper in Paris.

According to its poll carried out with marketing firm IFOP 68 per cent of French and 75 per cent of Germans believe Muslims are 'not well integrated into society'.

Others – 55 per cent in France and 49 per cent in Germany – believe that the 'influence and visibility of Islam' is 'too large', while 60 per cent in both countries say the reason for the problem was Muslims' own 'refusal' to integrate.


42 per cent of French and 40 per cent of Germans consider the presence of Islamic communities 'a threat' to their national identities. Here a student in a headscarf studies in a university library in Germany
Just as crucially, 42 per cent of French and 40 per cent of Germans consider the presence of Islamic communities 'a threat' to their national identities.

An editorial in Le Monde adds: 'As Islam becomes a permanent and increasingly conspicuous fixture of European societies, public opinion is clearly tensing up, though disparities do appear between young and old and between left- and right-wing.'

Jerome Fourquet, of IFOP, said the results 'go beyond linking immigration with security or immigration with unemployment, to linking Islam with a threat to identity'.

Mr Fourquet said he would like to extend the research to countries like the UK, where he believed the results would be pretty much the same.

The threat of terrorism has increasingly been linked with Muslim communities in all European countries, including Britain, since the 9/11 attacks on the USA in 2001 and the 7/7 atrocities in central London in 2005.

In France, Mr Sarkozy's government has displayed an increasing hard line towards religious extremism, recently banning Islamic veils.

Meanwhile, Mr Sarkozy has courted the voters of hard-right parties like the National Front as he tries to reassert traditional values.


Two Muslim women wearing niqab in northern France. Sarkozy's government recently banned Islamic veils and Sarkozy has courted the voters of hard-right parties as he tries to reassert traditional values

Following the publication of the new poll, French Foreign Minister Michele Alliot-Marie said it was important not to confuse moderate Muslims with radical or fundamentalist parties.

She said: 'I believe that we are not afraid of the person we know, the concern is about Muslims in general. We are not afraid of our neighbour across the hall.

'The trap set by Al-Qaeda was to push us towards a general confrontation, towards a war between the Muslim and Western worlds. We must watch out for anything that goes in that direction. We must not confuse Islam and terrorism.'

France is a secular society, but the vast majority of its inhabitants are Roman Catholics. No official figures are available, but the country is estimated to be home to around six million Muslims, many from its former North African colonies.

German federal authorities estimate their own Muslim population to be around 4.5 million, many of them Turks who emigrated in the 1960s.

The Le Monde/IFOP poll saw 1600 adults – 800 in France and 800 in Germany – interviewed about Muslim integration during one day last month.

Daily Mail

6 comments:

irainesan said...

Extremism and ignorance are our collective enemies; not Islam


Unfortunately, the US and her allies have been brainwashed into fear mode to create a foundation for a "preemptive" war ideology, a modus operandi that hasn't been "fashionable" since empire was in style.

I guess that's what the neo cons meant when they talked about "thinking outside the box", which in their case meant using any means necessary to start an unnecessary and disastrous war.

Real thinking outside of the box is using intelligence, training, international cooperation and chutzpah to fight the extremists, winning the hearts and minds of the population if possible and using the military as a last resort.

We are not fighting a conventional army, but dealing with stateless groups of individuals, many of whom do not even have a shred of respect for their fellow zealots.

Lumping all of the disparate groups together, as well as those who are themselves victims, which would comprise the majority of Muslims, is not just morally offensive, but in the end counter productive, as even General Petreus would attest.

irainesan said...

Because then we can realize that there are a lot of us, including a lot of Muslims, on the same side --- against extremism.

Extremism is the problem --- not Islam.

Per your mention of history --- when has out and out prejudice ever been justified, even once, in history?

Against Jews? Nope.

African-Americans? Nope.

Christians? Nope.

Americans? Nope.

...... and on and on and on.

When we're prejudiced, we're labeling whole groups of people with a singular label, forming evaluations about that label based on our own conditioning --- and reacting to it.

If we were all simply dealing with the actual, where would all these diverse opinions come from?

I'm just trying to draw our collective attention back to the actual --- that's all.

If you're convinced that Muslims are coming to get us, or whatever -- fine. It sounds like a pretty bad dream -- but some people are fairly committed to it, just like some people always are when the "new" people (Jews, Irish, Catholics, etc.) have come to town (so to speak).

If you really want to help neutralize extremism, though, and any threat associated with it -- engaging in a war of ideas is simply a waste of energy.

What peace and security can come from causing other people to be prejudiced against Islam, too?

Zero.

Extremism and ignorance are our collective enemies; not Islam

irainesan said...

Again and again western observers have sought to construct the character of Islam by focussing on the most extreme and repressive practices of Muslim states (there are no Islamic States in the entire world in the strictest sense of the term, though there are Islamic communities that live by Islam, as there are no Christian States but there are Christians communities who live by the teachings of Jesus Christ PBUH) or organisations like Al-Qaeda. Western critics of Islam disregard all other factors.

If we were to adopt the same attitude towards Western History, then it would undoubtedly be necessary to regard Stalin, who was educated in a seminary, as the creator of a Christian regime, and Hitler who was brought up as a Roman Catholic, as a Christian statesman. The fact that both Stalin and Hitler persecuted those Christians who opposed their regimes merely serves to strengthen the analogy. For in recent years the Muslim rulers (tyrants such as Saddam Hussein, Husni Mubaruk, and Saudi Kings) have themselves persecuted the many faithful Muslims who have opposed them.

Western observers are reluctant to acknowledge such facts and in general quite unwilling to recognise that Islam, like any other ancient faith, is profoundly heterogeneous.

irainesan said...

It is incomprehensive to treat the history of Christendom as an unrelated unit : the History of Christians, Jews and Muslims can only be dealt with as a whole. All these three religions are religions of Abraham.

The greatest tragedies and atrocities have occurred when the Jewish tradition considers itself the extraordinary, God-chosen, the holders of God's covenant, the pre-eminent and it seeks to downgrade Islam. About the same thing applies to Christianity since the days of the Crusade.

At present the Jews and Christians have joined together and have completely ignored Islam.

Islam recognises all religions; in fact the source of all true religions is the same. According to Islam there is not a single community, linguistic group, nation to which a prophet was not sent by God Almighty. Every tribe, clan, linguistic group, nationality had a messenger sent by one and the same one true Almighty God.

A God who is not the same for every body, give or take inevitable cultural coloration, could not provide a satisfactory solution to the fundamental religious question: WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE MEANING OF LIFE?"

In fact Islam recognises that the entire humanity one and the same community of equals. I quote the Quran

“God has created you into nations, clans and tribes so that you recognise each other, and in the sight of God the one closest to God is one who is righteous"
The same Quran sets only three preconditions for

salvation/redemption 1. Belief in one True Almighty God (Tawhid in Arabic) 2. Belief in accountability after death 3. Good and righteous deeds.

Those who fulfil these conditions whatever their brand of religion will have no grief, no sorrow and they will have their rewards with God.

That much is the tolerance of Islamic teachings. We have to stop stereotyping and generalising an entire community. A hard core ignorant extremist is an outcaste in all religions

irainesan said...

Islam recognises all religions, in fact the source of all true religions is the same. According to Islam there is not a single community, linguistic group, nation to which a prophet was not sent by God Almighty.

A God who is not the same for every body, give or take inevitable cultural coloration, could not provide a satisfactory solution to the fundamental religious question: WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE MEANING OF LIFE?" In fact Islam recognises that the entire humanity one and the same community of equals. I quote the Quran

" God has created you into nations, clans and tribes so that you recognise each other, and in the sight of God the one closest to God is one who is righteous"

That much is the tolerance of Islamic teachings. We have to stop stereotyping and generalising an entire community. A hard core ignorant extremist is an outcaste in all religions

Those who criticise the Quran should read first the following article by Frank Schaeffer on “May be God Rejects the Bible” because the Bible says that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." But many of the Bible verses quoted by Frank miserably fails to fulfil this principle of profitable doctrines. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/maybe-god-rejects-the-bib_b_666896.html

laudalay28 said...

could the problem of integration be also be due different lifestyle of Muslims drinking, clubbing, dating etc. it could be that Muslims youth is not welcome into these spheres of life by the french, German etc, even if they are secular and want to blend in with them.